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March 31, 2008


Can the grip clips be used successfully with materials as thick as cotton canvas? 6 oz, 8 oz, 10 oz? or are they intended only for the thinner synthetics?

Currently making a Whelen Lean-to of waterproof 8 oz canvas and would use grip clips instead of grommets at the stake-out points if they'll work.


GaryYes they should: Canvas can very a lot with how it is treated: I would try the General P and the Heavy D to see which is best for you. They should make great stake outs in they spread out the load over a large area.


Bob Gillis

On Mar 8, 2008

Hello Bob,

I want to be able to do two things. First, to attach mosquito netting to silnylon. The .085 oz white clips will work for that,or do I need the .2 oz blacks for that?

Second, I need a couple extra tie outs for staking, not for lifting, the siynylon tarp. Will the .085 ultra lites work for that or do I need the smallest black ones?

Thanks for your reply.


The micro should work for the netting, and to a degree for the tie outs. The LF grips more area; so it is a stronger grip but I think either would do. Let me know how it works for you.


Bob Gillis

On Feb 3, 2008

Dear Bob

Please explain to me the differences between the Light Fabric,
General Purpose and Heavy Duty Grip Clips such as weight
bearing capacity, life expectancy, etc. Thank you for your

Boyce Kinley

Boyce Kinley,

Look at http://shelter-systems.com/gripclips/products.html and http://shelter-systems.com/gripclips/ If you have not yet studied at these pages.

The GP and HD Grip Clip tarp fastener will withstand a 150-to-200 lb. pull without coming off or tearing the tarp at the point of attachment. We achieve this through the following design features. The tarp passes over and under multiple sections of the tarp fastener. Thus the tarp is in contact with a large surface area of the fastener. By spreading out the force exerted on the tarp and increasing the friction between it and the fastener, the tarp is prevented from slipping or tearing. The two pieces of the Grip Clip tarp fastener lock together (somewhat like a button in a button hole), engaging the tarp between them, so that the two pieces cannot come apart accidentally.

The LF Grip Clips will in most situations tare a hole in what it is attached to before it fails.

All our clips are UV stabilized and should last in most sun conditions for an excess of 3 year but likely much longer perhaps in excess of 6 years. We have never had a complaint about longevity.


Bob Gillis

On Jan 30, 2008


I came across your website after searching google for
a way to incoporate mosquito netting into a tarp

I can't recall the exact search query, but regardless
your web page was near the top.

I guess after perusing your site I am trying to
discern if this product would allow me to in some
fashion rig mosquito netting into a tarp shelter.

If so please share with me how this might work. I
would be happy to purchase your product and if
effective recommend it to other members of the light
weight backpacking community who use lightweight
sil-nylon tarps for shelters, but need a way to
occasionaly deal with the bugs.

Thanks a bunch.

Jayson Campbell


You can: Look at: http://shelter-systems.com/gripclips/ultra-light-silicon-tarps.html

Just clip in the netting with the tarp.

To seal the net keep tarp under tension or roll the net with the tarp before you clip.


Bob Gillis

On Aug 10, 2007

Hi Bob -

Is there any reason to buy the general-purpose clip over the Grip Clip Pro?  Or the heavy-duty clip over the Pro?  I get the sense that the Pro is the way to go now, and it costs the same as those other two, but maybe you can clarify for me.

FYI I'm a proud owner of an 18' dome I bought from y'all back in 2003; it's been to the playa four times now, and is going on a fifth.  At least one person bought the same dome a couple years later after seeing mine.  Love that thing!


San Francisco, CA

Hi Larry

Yes, the GPGC and the HDGC are better than the GCP when you want to grab onto a tarp and pull or join two free hanging tarps together. The standard GC can be used to tie a tarp to a frame. The Pro is best when you want to directly attach a tarp to a frame of wood, metal etc. The "button" part of the Pro can be screwed directly to say a wooden roof or a steel pole structure and then you can "lock" on a tarp with the "ring" part of the Pro. The pro can be used to join tarps


Bob Gillis

Date: July 14, 2007 Questions regarding Dome Floors/cover

Hello Eleanor,

My apologies if this sounds like a redundant request - i did email you a while back about dome floors and covers but my computer crashed and i lost all of my email archives, and now i'm ready to order and don't have the details i need.

i have a 2V electrical metal conduit dome that i use at burning man. i have been using painters tarps for flooring and a parachute for cover, but this year i am interested in getting more serious about both floor and cover.

i believe that my dome is approximately 17 feet across on the ground and about 9 feet high in the center.

wondering if you can recommend which size floor i would need - 18 feet? and also wondering if it is possible to buy a ready-made cover for my dome that is breathable and waterproof. if not, what do you recommend ordering that will cover my dome adequately?

thanks in advance for your help.

monique verrier


I think an 18' would do; or you could just use a tarp or tarps and fold under to make it fit. Our covers will not fit your domes. You could use our Grip Clip Pro http://shelter-systems.com/gripclips/grip-clip-pro-1.html attached out side to your poles cover with shingled tarps working from the bottom up and lock on with the Pro as you go.


Bob Gillis

On Jul 9, 2007

Hi about the Micro and light gripclips do they both have a hole in the insert slot fitting mechanism for cord on the fitted plastic insert piece?
Also do all versions of your clips have the same minimum pull test of 150-200 pounds?

Hi Noel

The Micro has a hole. The LF has a slot. The pull test was done only on the GP and the HD. Hold strength in part depends on the strength of the sheet material.


Bob Gillis


The GripClips are great. I was looking for a way to suspend bug netting under a tarp. The GripClips are just what I needed. Many thanks.


On Jun 4, 200

On Mar 17, 2007

How many grip-clips do I need to hold up 6 mil polyethylene  (3 pieces 10 x 25 ft) inside a 20' dome?
The geodesic dome is 3V 10' radius and about 19' diameter at ground level and about 8.5' high; it's
made of 120 struts each 3.5' to 4' half inch EMT.  There are 15 joints at ground level and 31 higher up.
Each joint has a 5/16 bolt through the center.  Based on what is typed here it looks like I need 46 plus
maybe a few extra.
This site may help illustrate--http://www.desertdomes.com/dome3calc.html
(note, the drawing is of a 5/8 dome, mine has one less row of triangles at the bottom).
See attached picture;  the door will be the large triangle in front.
At this point I am using 3/4 inch rocks with wire wrapped around them to attach two pieces of plastic
or to make something to hook a bungee cord to.  Not too elegant but I guess I got the theory right.
Eventually I want to insulate this greenhouse--two layers of poly with practice golf balls as spacers. (One
ball per triangle) 
BTW, the frame will support 200 pounds (me) at any joint but not between joints. And, it's almost 30' from
ground level over the top to the other side.
Feel free to make any suggestions especially about the door (it seems sturdy with one strut removed).

Hi Dan

I would use one Heavy Duty Grip Clip at each joint. Get a few more to attach to a door flap. Make the flap bigger than the opening so that it overlaps it by about 6". attach clips on this flap and attach out side the dome covering so that your door will be tight and shingled.


Bob Gillis

My order arrived yesterday and I put some of the grip clips to use this morning.
I can definitely see that putting the film, tarp, or fabric on the inside of a frame is the way
to go-- nothing is chaffing against the hubs and it's easier compared to trying to fasten
two pieces together that are already installed and under some tension. So, I will be
putting the poly film on the inside sooner rather than later--I still plan to install two layers
but the second will go on the outside.
I appreciate all the ideas for how to use these things you have on your website.

Date: January 7, 2007

I am interested in making a "tarp tent" and see the ordering information for the "Grips" but where do I find the plans for assembly?
Kind regards,
Dennis Foster

These http://www.shelter-systems.com/tarp-kit.html are visual plans that should get you going.


Bob Gillis

Date: January 6, 2007
Subject: 4 hour kayak clips

Pardon my ignorance, but I tried reading which clips to get to make the kayak, and still don’t know which size – I didn’t think I needed the plus ones –

so if you could tell me exactly which size clips and the recommended amount for the four hour kayak, or if you have a package designed for it - I’ll buy them

Spencer Thury, William Penn University


I recommend the 8 General Purpose.


Bob Gillis


I would use the GP Grip Clip with some sort of backing to thicken up the very thin nylon of your parachute. The gaskets can be of say 3 layers of 6" by 6" squares of blue tarps. This will allow the clips to grip and spread the stress over a large area of nylon. Be sure to use enough to hold the loads that you expect the shelter to sustain.


Bob Gillis

On Jan 3, 2007,

I am designing a shelter based on a surplus military parachute.  What type of grip clip would you recommend as anchor points and guy out points for this type of fabric?  Thanks!

Hi Bob

the good news is that the terrible wind storm that hit the seattle area did not, to the best of my knowledge so far, break even one
connector. a bunch of the females parted company from their male counterparts (Grip Clip Pro), mostly where tarps were being held vertically against a wall.
my guess is that the pressure on them was not as steady those in the near horizontal orientation and the females rotated around in a sort of
chattering fashion until they were in the "release" position. very few, less than 3, of the connectors came off when holding material in
close to a horizontal orientation. the one exception was where they came off along one edge where i had jury rigged connectors to hold old
plastic that had been stapled down before and there was very little plastic on the outer edge, maybe 2" max. the plastic just ripped through
the connectors and once it did my guess is that as in the "near horizontal" case the females chattered into the "release" position before
being blown off.

Do you think a 4 by 4' grid would do the job too?

based on what i've seen so far, i would not do a 4' x 4' grid for 6 mil plastic.
nor would i do it for 5 mil tarps, although the fabric weave in the tarp probably makes it more tear resistant than the 6 mil plastic.
i might try a 3' x 3' grid for 5 mil tarps...it all depends on the wind hit that you expect.

i totally agree that a 2' x 2' seems a bit extreme and it takes a lot of time and connectors to implement, but this last wind storm made a
believer out of me, at least for 6 mil plastic, which seems to be more waterproof than the tarps.

as for 10 mil tarps, i had 4 of them covering the mid-section of the house. the two on the east side and the upper one on the west side were
all done in a 2' x 2' grid pattern and none of those connectors popped off or wore holes in the tarp. however, the lower west side tarp had
connectors spaced at about 5' along the rafters. i was pressed for time with rains on the way and i could not imagine a wind storm like the
one that hit 14.dec. the tarps are 12' x 20' and i had 4 connectors in the 12' direction, but the spacing was not even. there was one at the
top about 1' from the edge for overlap, one about 5' down from there, another about 5' down from there and one about 8" from there on the
lower end of the rafter.
i figured the bottom flapping about was my highest risk.

well, the wind storm beat at that lower tarp, pulling it up and down, up and down, and the pictures show the holes that were worn in it
around the connectors in the middle. the upper and lower connectors did not wear through the tarp.

How are you making your patches? do you glue them with silicon rubber?

patches in the plastic are being made with tyvek tape.
the tape is expensive, about $10 or $12 for a 50 meter x 2" wide roll, and it's not all that strong in that if a tear starts it easy to rip.
but the adhesive is outstanding and it's tensile strength seems to be quite good.

i got some adhesive backed tarp material that is sold in a roll for patching tarps.
i used it a little to patch tarps hanging vertically but i would not count on it holding water.

i'm sure silicone rubber would make a good patch, but it's not practical for me as the scale of coverage is so big, about 2000 sq. ft.
it would be too much work to take down a whole section of plastic/tarp to patch a hole and put it back up.
add to that november being the wettest month in seattle in 151 years and you can see that "dry working time" was hard to come by.

now...here's a little info as to what kind of wind storm we had.

at 1 a.m., the wind speed at seattle-tacoma international airport hit 46 mph, with gusts up to 69 mph, according to the national weather
service in seattle. at my place the winds started around 6pm 14.dec and didn't really die down until almost 12 hours later at 6am 15.dec.

"it was one of the strongest winds we've had at sea-tac in a long, long time," neher said. by 5 a.m., the winds had started to ease. The
airport reported winds of 29 mph, with gusts up to 38 mph, neher said.

puget sound energy had the following on their web site on 16dec06:

"Our crews continue making steady progress restoring customers' power in the wake of yesterday's devastating windstorm. As of 4 p.m. today,
we've brought back electric service to almost half or more than 320,000 of the 700,000 customers who lost power when gale-force winds hit the
region early yesterday."

puget sound energy covers an area of about a 50 mile radius around seattle.
more like an ellipse actually with the main axis running north/south.

in short, it was a big deal.

as i said earlier, the good news is that i found no broken connectors...
it seems that my previous guess may have been true.
the male connectors that had broken "ears" were ones that were being stressed to the side.
during the worst of the storm i went up to see the action and all of the connectors were being pulled up on in a uniform fashion on all

as for damage in the area around my house, two maps show my house location and the pictures show wind damage that occurred within a 1 mile
radius. there were many more examples of damage within that area, but i chose the most representative ones.
it is interesting to note that the trees fell, for the most part, in the direction of the radius of the circle from the circumference to the
center. the other map shows downtown and the space needle location which is pretty much southwest of my house. that's pretty much the
direction the wind was coming from. the two line up pretty well and as it is an unencumbered path from the space needle to my 2nd floor, i am
amazed that so little damage was done to the house/tarps/plastic. i don't know how much of it was sheer luck as opposed to the structure
being tougher than i thought and/or the downed trees having rather shallow root systems. but even with a shallow root system, many of those
trees had been around for a long long time prior to 14.dec and the maps shows that they fell all around my house.

the long rips in the plastic invariably occured along a crease in the plastic.
the roll is sold as 100' x 20' of plastic and the roll is about 4' tall which then folds out to 20' wide.
before the wind storm i noticed that it was not unusual to find small holes along a seam, typically smaller than 1 mm.
it turns out that the seams in the plastic are the weak link.

i would recommend that plastic always be put up with the crease peak to the upside to avoid making a valley for the water to run down and
therefore leak. for the longest time i could not figure out what was going on in one part of the "roof" where there was a mist like layer of
water on the floor after a rain. i didn't see the holes at first and i didn't notice that the crease was facing down.

it also turned out that the long tears, not just plastic tearing around connectors, occurred on the upwind side of both the south and north
ends of the house. seems as though the wind hitting the plastic and then being forced up was more damaging that wind that had gone over the
peak and was going down, probably in eddys.

although i'm reasonably sure that i somehow missed the worst of the winds by sheer luck, i did use a little of my physics background to help
improve the odds. bernoulli's principle (where the velocity is the greatest, the pressure is the least) implied that the forces trying to rip
the plastic up and off of the connectors would be greater if there was a strong wind above the roof with static air inside. that being the
case, i uncovered all of the windows on the south end of the house and disconnected all of the connectors holding the vertical tarps on the
east side of the house, both south and north ends. there was nothing to open in the middle section of the house. the north end of the house
was open to air flow as there were several pieces of plastic hanging vertically but attached only at the top. it turns out they keep rain out
rather effectively for anything but rain coming out of the north, which is rare.

the one place i did not open was a vertical tarp on the north west side of the house.

it turned out that the longest rips in the plastic were on the north end...

so, i can't say for sure, but it looks as though having some air flow on the underneath side of the plastic helped to decrease the pressure
difference between the top and bottom of the plastic.

sorry for this being so long, but there was a lot going on...

best wishes for the holidays,


Hi Reg

I would recommend 4 or 8 of the Light Fabric. Four if you tie to frame 8 if you loop under mattress at the 4 corners.


Bob Gillis

On Nov 13, 2006

Dear Bob
I am looking for a way to secure my 1 piece light disposable bed sheet for a budget hotel.  Which clip would you reccommend?  And how many would you reccommend per bed?
Reg Chew


As far as how many HD GC to use: it depends on how strong the wind and how strong your tarp. It sounds like you have a stiff wind so I would use quite a few to spread the load out as best you can and to keep the tarp from flapping. If you pull too hard on a single clip it might rip out a hole in your tarp, so its is better to have more Grip Clips spaced about. Your tarp should be drum tight if possible. If the wind load surpasses the total holding strength of the clips then either your tarp or one or more clips can fail. I hope this is helpful. If possible send us a photo of your clips in use.

On Nov 15, 2006
> I have a large "coverit" tent. 24X36X14.
> The sun had taken out the thread and I lost the ends is the winds. I
> am using the grabbers to hold a "heavy duty" tarp against the back end
> to keep the wind from whistling thru. I used ratchet straps to pull it
> tight. The bottom is batten boarded to the base and I am using 12
> grabbers so far.  The wind took all of the original grommets out of
> the tarp.
> If this lasts the winter, I had bought a 40'X40' tarp to cover the top
> of the tent. The wid took out all of the grommets on that also, but it
> is too late in the season to try to get it back on.
> The question is how tight can I pull them and how many should I put on.
> That leads to the question of how many more I am going to need for the
> top cover.
> They look like they are working great so far.
> Thanks
> Bob

Hi Bob,

In those areas that are unsecured except on the edge of the tarps and
you can tie to something the Heavy Duty Grip Clips will hold a
significantly heavier load.

putting connectors in the middle of the unsecured area is an excellent suggestion.
i had considered nailing some 2x4's at right angles to the rafters and putting connectors on them to fill out the matrix a little
more, but your idea is better.

mid point suspensions.jpg shows the result.

i have a medium strength bungee cord between a rope tied to 22" of 2x10 (i'll use them later for blocking between the rafters up high) and a
rope coming down from the connector. the bungee cord is stretched an inch or so before tying off to put it under a little tension.
as luck would have it, the rains came back this morning and the wind returned around 2pm, strong, but not as bad as a few days back.
even so, it was a good test and watching the bungee cord stretch and pull back with the varying load was kinda cool.
sometimes you could hear a little "thump" as the 2x10 piece of wood was momentarily lifted from the floor.

all in all it seems to be working well as it damps out any large motion of the plastic billowing up and down while at the same time
preventing the sudden shocks to the tarp or connector that were causing them to fail.

as for the Heavy Duty Grip Clips, i don't think the problem is with the connectors not being able to take a heavy enough load.
for every connector that has failed, at least 3 of them held as the tarp/plastic was ripped apart.
of course in most cases neither the connectors nor the tarps/plastic sheets failed.

speaking of ripping tarps, i noticed something as the tarps were ripping that you may find of interest.
the corners of the female grip clip pro connectors tend to dig into the tarp as the wind pulls the tarp up and this weakens the tarp at that

i know this because i watched one connector when the wind was blowing like crazy a few days back.
i let this one progressively fail to see what happens and the corner of the female connector, smooth though it is, was digging into the
tarp, slowly working a hole into it at that point. as time went on the hole got bigger and bigger until the tarp was only being held by the
downwind side of the connector.

if the female connector were elliptical, it seems as though it would be harder for the tarp to fail in that way, but of course it might also
be harder to turn the connector without a tarp tool or some such aid...

anyway, when used properly, that problem should be rare or non-existent so the "solution", of course, is to fill in all of the rafters
between the valley rafters, but that will take time.

we have had a break in the weather here the last three days.
i spent the whole time putting up more connectors to secure the tarps better.

of the 1300 connectors i bought, i am down to about 350 or so...

if there is some "tarping competition" you hold, an annual "tarp-a-thon" or something of that nature, please let me know.
i'm getting pretty good at this by now and figure i can hold my own in the "old geezer" over 60 category.

attached are more pictures, this time showing the grid more nicely i think.

note the space needle in one of the pictures.
i was looking southwest as i took the picture and that is the direction from which the winds usually comes.
as you can see, there isn't much out there to break the wind as it come roaring up the hill at me.



Hi Mike

I think our Grip Clips may do the trick for you. http:www.GripClips.com If you want to hang the drapes a ways from the ceiling and you are using 6 or 4 mill plastic sheeting I recommend our Heavy Duty Grip Clips in that they can me hung from cords a way from your ceiling and they spread the load well. If you want your sheeting right up against your ceiling then the Grip Clip Pro would be best.

Tell me more as to how far the tarps are to be from the ceiling and what thickness and what type are the drapes and I can advise you more.


Bob Gillis

On Nov 15, 2006, at 3:51 PM, M KRULAS wrote:

I am a contractor looking for construction applications.  We will be hanging plastic drapes from 30 ft ceilings to contain dust around construction area.  Do you have a system.
Please reply.
Mike K.

dear eleanor and bob,

i don't know if you are working on saturday, but if you are, i'd like to order 1000 of the grip clip pro boys and girls.
it seems the only way to win for sure in this battle with the wind and rain, especially the wind, is to have as many
attachment points as possible...so...please consider this a formal order and start the shipping process.

the rest of this email gives you some background on what i'm up to here in seattle, if you are curious.
consider them the ramblings of an old guy who has been fighting with the wind and rain and as such may from time to time
become somewhat incoherent...please to forgive said incoherence...

that having been said, i must also say that i have happily joined the battle with the wind and rain now that i have grip clip
pros to play with.

they are just AMAZING!!!

the old saying about having the right tool for the job was never more true than in this case.
having grip clip pros to attach tarps to the house is THE ONLY way to go!


i got up at 4am this morning, saturday, to see if the wind, which was in the mid-20 mph range last night and is predicted to
increase in strength over the next few days, had blown my tarps off.

much to my relief, it had not.

"progress as of 10oct06.jpg" shows the southwest corner of the house.
winter winds and rain usually come out of the southwest, and the house is on a ridge, so there is nothing to break the wind as
it hits that part of the house.

but so far, with the exception of the one "busted boy", all of the attachment points have held.
i was expecting one old tarp to get ripped away from the connectors as that was starting to happen late in the day when i
found the "busted boy". i tried pulling the tarp back into position after replacing the connector and was unable to do so as
there was way too much force on the tarp at that point.

i have been picking away at this thing from the outer edges going in as time was short and i wanted to aviod h20 damage to the
house. (the last rain i had a leak over my front door, as in, h2o was coming down the inside of the door...no fun...but great
motivation to keep me working!)

ideally i would have covered the edges with connectors and put a few along the rafters to keep the tarps from flapping and to
take some of the load off of the edges, but there wasn't enough time to take the tarps down and put connectors in the center
area. however, for the old tarp over the southwest corner of the house, it had soooooooo much slack in it and the tarp was
billowing up sooooooooo high that i decided to put connectors here and there along some of the rafters and then grabbed the
tarp from the underside when there was a lull in the wind and put the clip over that part. as an attachment, it seems much
less than ideal and more likely to rip the tarp, but as i said, it's an old tarp, so i'm offering it up as an experiment to
see how much it can.

last night at least it seemed to hold.

i am using new 5 mil tarps for the most part and have a new 5 mil backup tarp the same size as the old one over the southwest
corner. although some of the grommets have already ripped out of some of the new tarps since i was using ropes to secure them,
that won't matter with the grip clip pros.

after ordering the first round of grip clip pros i got some contractor grade 10 mil tarps.
these are really serious heavy duty tarps and when i distribute the grip clips all over the roof surface and attach these
tarps i don't see any way for them to fail.

the good news is that near the end of the summer i coated all of the 2nd floor area with "miracote membrane a".
it is a substance the consistency of jello pudding in the bucket that spreads and dries to form a rubberized covering.
since i am still living in the "old part of the house", i thought it might be nice to pass the winter without h2o coming
through the ceiling. i then put the bottom plate of the outer walls around the perimeter to essentially form a 1.5" pool were
it to rain. add 4 drain holes where the new construction is being done and you hopefully have a watertight shell over the old
house. the problems begin when you put up walls on the 2nd floor that are over the old house. rain can hit the walls and or
rafters and run down the sides into the old house structure. having tarps over everything is the only way to go at this point.

i have decided that without a doubt your grip clip pro m/f pairs offer me the best chance of getting through the winter with
little or no h2o damage to the house.

i have included some pictures to show you what i'm up to.
the one showing the ripped tarp gives you some idea of the forces involved in a good ole seattle winter.
a plastic golf ball was used to make the attachment.

i have used the grip clips with some 6 mil plastic that contractors use and so far they seem to be holding up well.
i'll give you more feedback on that later if you are interested.

ok...that's it...

in closing:

bob, i was curious to see what else the mind of a guy who came up with the tarp connectors was up to so i "googled you".
it was a real treat to see what you have been up to.
you are truely a man after my own heart...i really liked the ice lens.

eleanor, you have been fantastic in helping me with the orders/shipping.
your kindness and attention to detail has made doing business with you a pleasure.

many thanks to you both,


dear elanor and bob,

this is in followup to my saturday email.


i'll call monday morning re: the order for an additional 1000 grip clip pros.
it's probably overkill, but i seem to chew through them pretty quickly so it should work out ok.

in addition to the 1000 pairs, i'd like to get 7 extra of the male connectors.
as i said in the earlier email, one was missing in an order and one of the "boys" had a "ear lobe" broken off.
two more of the "guys" broke last night and i'll probably sacrifice a few more before i can get the load distributed well


as i said, i am reasonably sure that i am overloading the male grip clip pros because the load is not distributed evenly on
the tarp on the southwest side of the house, which is where they are breaking, and because of how i am making the connections.

in yesterday's email i attached pictures of the house.
seen from the front the southwest corner of the house is to the right.
the winds are almost always out of the southwest up here, so the tarp on the southwest corner gets beat up the most.

the tarps on the north end (to the left in the picture) and in the middle only have connectors around the perimeter.
every 2 feet at the ends of the rafters and about every 16" along the gable ends.
they also lack any connectors in the central portions of the tarps.
the reason is that when i was putting the connectors in for the first time i was hard pressed to get the tarps up everywhere
before the rain and wind hit.
but when i attached the north and middle tarps, i was at least able to pull them fairly evenly across the surface.
so far, although they both flapped around alot, none of the connectors gave way.

on the south section of the house i have the oldest tarp of them all and i was only able to get connectors on the ends of the
rafters that meet up with the middle section. during one of the times when the winds were really moving the south tarp around
a lot (it was billowing up really high...bernoulli's principle seems to be alive and well in seattle), so i attached some
connectors to the tops of some of the rafters and then made the attachment to the tarp by catching it from below, making a
fold in it, and putting that over the male connector. i don't know for sure, but i'll bet that this kind of "one sided
connection" is pretty rough on the male connector since when it pulls from the top it also tries to rotate the connector up
from it's anchor point.

had i been able to take the tarp down and make the connections one at a time with the female connector on the outside of the
tarp, i think the forces on the male connector would have been either up or lateral but without the rotational force that my
connecting from underneath is probably causing.

winds yesterday and last night were, according to the local weather reports, between 18 to 25 mph with gusts to 50 mph.
i have noooooo idea what the actual wind speeds were at my house, but the flapping tarps were pretty noisy...

best regards,


HI Michel

Thanks for your update.

Was the polyethylene you used 6 mill? Can you send us a photo of it being griped? Were you able to grip two layers.

On reason you might be getting leaks from your old tarps is that with enough flapping they de-laminate and then can leak. Might it also be condensation?

Can you clamp onto two layers of your 10 mill? How well does it work on one layer.

Bob Gillis


On Nov 6, 2006


Thanks for the info on your house tarping, photos

by now you should have photos of the installing tool.
it's pretty crude at this point and is likely to stay that way as i have a lot of other fish to fry.
i have not had a chance to use it much as the wind and rain have prevented me from taking any of the tarps down to put
connectors in the mid-sections, but, in the few cases where i have used it, i must say, i think it helps.

these past few weeks have done a number on my fingers with all of the tying and untying of ropes while trying to pull the rope
tight around those plastic golf balls...what a fiasco that was!

i sure am glad i googled "tarp connectors" and found shelter systems!!!

anyway, the main advantage of the tool seems to be that i have a broad surface to push on to make the tarp go over the male
connector and it also seems to be easier to turn the female connector since there is more surface to grab on.
in short, it seems to lessen the load on my fingers, the finger tips in particular, which is what i was after.

You are right the clips can get over loaded if they are spaced to far
from each other and certain type of loading will brake off an ear. We
will replace them at no charge to you. That was a pretty stiff wind you
had. If you can keep the tarps tight you should have better luck
against wind flap (which as you know adds loading and the wear on the
tarps). And as you point out it is best if the tarps are secured in
the mid sections also as wind will want to lift and push. Good luck
with your project and keep us informed and do let us know how your tool
works out.

many thanks for the advice.
it's nice to know that you think i am on the right track prior to spending a lot of time going down said track.

the wind here seems to be fairly steady at 25-35 mph according to the local tv channels.
although it's hard to know just how true that is with local news channels consistently choosing adjectives designed to shock
rather than inform, they claim the current storm system in terms of size and intensity only comes along once every decade or
so. they are talking about rivers flooding like they did back in 1990...we'll see...

for me, flooding is not an issue, but the wind continues to pose a problem.

all i know is that it's blowing and raining a LOT and although it sounds pretty bad sometimes, so far last night no more
connectors broke or came undone. quite a testament to their strength.

even in the worst section where the old tarp covers the southwest part of the house, i still have 4 connection points in the
middle of the tarp that were made from under the tarp and they have been holding for 2 days now.

thanks for the offer to replace the broken connectors.
as i said in an earlier email, i don't mind paying for the broken connectors.
i'm not using them properly so basically i see it as my fault they are breaking.

silly as it sounds, i actually feel a little sorry for "the boys" when one of them go down...

just goes to show you, the female is indeed the stronger of the species.

oh...before i forget...i have used the connectors in several places, maybe 20 by now, to attach 6 mil plastic (the tough stuff
you get from home depot for about $90 for a roll that's 20' x 100') and so far none of them have given way or slipped off.
they are mostly used to anchor the plastic in a vertical position and i don't think the wind load is so large, but even so,
that's good news. i was not expecting them to hold so well as the plastic feels a little "slick" to the touch and i thought it
might be inclined to slip through the connectors, but not so. the "ears" on the male connectors seem to "dig into" the plastic
a little making the connection rather secure.

in closing, it has been my experience so far that the blue 5 mil tarps i have been getting from home depot are not all that
waterproof. i don't know if they are getting stretched so much that it is causing them to leak or what, but i have a new 5 mil
tarp in the center section and if i stand under it when it's flapping up and down water comes through.

has that been your experience with similar tarps?

i have a bunch of 10 mil tarps that are 12' x 20' and will be installing them as conditions permit.
i don't see any way for them to leak. they seem to be really tough.

before i knew about the grip clip pro i would not have even considered using them as they are much heavier than the 5 mil
version an a 30' x 50' tarp, the largest blue one i have, would have been all but impossible to move around by myself.

but since i can now tile tarps without having to worry about the seam leaking, the 10 mil tarps become a good alternative.

thanks again to both of you for all your help,



hi bob,

Was the polyethylene you used 6 mill?


Can you send us a photo of it being gripped?

yes, but i'm doing battle with some pretty heavy rain right now so it'll probably not happen until late today or tomorrow.

Were you able to grip two layers.

i have gripped up to 3 layer so far.
have not tried 4.

am off to lowe's hardware and may get some more of the plastic.
it is turning out to be amazingly tough and unless you cut, puncture or rip it there is no question as to it's being

i currently have enough new 10 mil tarps to cover all but one relatively small section of the roof, but i'm a little into
experimental mode right now as long as the old part of the house is not taking h2o damage.
hence i may try tarping the new section that takes the most wind hit with 6 mil plastic alone.

turns out the 10 mil tarps are opaque and it's getting pretty dark as i put them up.
the 6 mil plastic should let in a lot of light.

One reason you might be getting leaks from your old tarps is that with
enough flapping they de-laminate and then can leak.

de-lamination makes sense, especially with all of the stretching it's being put through.

Might it also be condensation?

don't think so...but i'm not sure i'd be able to recognize condensation under these heavy rain conditions...

people are saying this general area is having the worst flooding in 10 or 15 years.

Can you clamp onto two layers of your 10 mill?


that's the first thing i tried when your connectors arrived.

How well does it work on one layer.

if you mean "how hard is it to make the connection?", the answer is it's not a problem.
the 10 mil tarp is considerably stiffer than the 5 mil tarp, but even so, it's not been too hard.

if you mean "how solid is the connection?", i can't say for sure yet.
i'm just now putting some of them up.

my guess is that they will hold as good or better than the 5 mil tarps.
being stiffer it seems that it would harder to work/slip through the connectors.

Thanks for letting us share your words and photos with others.

at some point i should have some nice photos showing a bunch of connectors spread all throughout the surface of a tarp.

gotta go...



Hi Michel

I have inserted some text in yours below:


Bob Gillis

On Nov 9, 2006

dear eleanor and bob,

many thanks for the grip clip order status update.
the boxes arrived around noon yesterday and the connectors are all present and accounted for.

i was able to cover half of the south section of the house with connectors spaced roughly in a 2' x 2' grid pattern
before the rains started up again around 6pm last night.

would love to see a photo of your 2 by 2 grid from the out side.

i was working under the existing blue tarp material, which i am r
apidly coming to the conclusion is just this side of
useless. if indeed wind has caused it to delaminate, then it doesn't take that much to cause it to happen.
the tarp on the north section was new as of a couple of months ago and it "leaks" in a fashion similar to sweat forming
all over the surface of someone's skin. it's something that happens all over the tarp and is not concentrated at any
particular point. the biggest problem with that is that the wood under the tarp gets damp and stays damp, which it not
good at all.

none of the 10 mil tarps have leaked at all, at least not so far, so i am guardedly optimistic about them.
they are kinda heavy and a little hard to move around, but that would be ok were it not for them being opaque.
that's why i'm going to experiment with the 6 mil plastic over the windy south side of the house, it lets light through.
pulling the plastic off from places where i stapled it down takes quite a bit of force, and that's for a really tiny
contact area, so i am hopeful that the relatively broad area of contact that your connectors afford will make it really
hard for it to be ripped off by the wind.

the big advantage of the 6 mil plastic, in addition to it letting in some light, is that it's totally waterproof and
since your connectors hold the material up a little from the surface i am hopeful that the damp wood underneath will
start to dry out.

You may not get drying till the humidity becomes less than 100% (rain). Read a bit in the paper about your flooding up there.



Attach two at each corner each spaced apart by about 1' from the corner. Then run a string under the mattress.


Bob Gillis

On Nov 14, 2006

How do you tie 8 to secure bedsheet under the matress? 1 post to correspond to 2 corners?

Hi Reg

I would recommend 4 or 8 of the Light Fabric. Four if you tie to frame 8 if you loop under mattress at the 4 corners.

Bob Gillis

On Nov 13, 2006

Dear Bob
I am looking for a way to secure my 1 piece light disposable bed sheet for a budget hotel.  Which clip would you reccommend?  And how many would you reccommend per bed?
Reg Chew

dear bob,

well, i'm back in the land of rain...and now...snow...
looks like this winter will be a real test case for a house under construction with no roof.

i was really glad to have had the chance to meet you.
sorry i couldn't get across the mountains to visit eleanor in santa cruz, but maybe some other time.
also, thanks for letting me bring pete and boomer along.
it's a bit of a production, but it's always good when pete can get out of the house and boomer likes it too.

as for the connectors, before i totally forget, i think i gave you a bag with either 30 broken connectors plus 2 that didn't get enough
plastic during production, or, it was 32 broken plus 2. i wrote the numbers on a note and put it in the bag.

if you remind me via email then that will be the operative number.

eleanor previously sent me 7 male connectors.
one of those was for a connector missing from a shipment, but the other 6 were to replace broken guys.
so whatever the number of guys i left with you, 6 of them have already been replaced.

i have about 300 connectors right now so there is no pressing need for replacements to be shipped at this time.
i came across another broken connector that was hiding amongst the clutter of my kitchen table and there may be some more out there,
but as of my return there were no more broken connectors that i know of.

there is still one edge along the back edge of a blue tarp that is over 6 mil plastic that is vulnerable, but other than that the
system seems solid.

in the pie shaped areas not secured by connectors and bungee cords before i left, there were several places where the 6 mil plastic
ripped, but none of the connectors were broken. i have now secured all but two of the areas between the valley rafters with connectors
and bungee cords and will proceed to start filling in between the valley rafters.

i really really want to fill in those valley rafters but the weather is just nuts around here so far this winter.

long story short, the 2' x 2' grid still seems to be good enough for 6 mil plastic, and anything tougher, as of 27.nov.2006.

there were about 2" of snow last night and early this morning there was a lot of wind.
i wasn't crazy about having the snow loading down the 6 mil plastic and i have a 22' stretch (ridge to wall) of rafters that lack any
mid-support (an interior wall that has yet to be built provides mid-support in the final version) with 10 mil tarps over them.
the rafters would probably give before the 10 mil tarp.

the plastic is sagging a lot under the weight, but for now all systems seem to be holding so i will press on as weather permits.

the good news is that everywhere the tarps and plastic have been "properly secured" the area underneath remains bone dry and the
connectors and tarps/plastic remain unbroken.

hope all is well with the two of you and thanks again for all of the advice/help.

it has been very much appreciated.

best regards,



Both are UV stabilizes. In the worst of conditions (FL or AZ) they should last in excess of 3 years full sun year round exposure. I would expect them to out last the covering of your structure.

Bob Gillis

On Nov 16, 2006

I bought the clips with the "cord" or string or wire. That was one of the issues. How prone are the clips and supplied cord to UV rays.
That was what ate out the zipper thread.

On Dec 3, 2006

Hello Mr. Gillis!
Due to wide availability of tarps of various thickness commonly found at both Home Depot and Lowe's, please tell me how thick Heavy Duty Grip Clip and Grip Clip Pro can handle certain tarps respectively?  I would appreciate if you give your answers in terms of millimeters at maximum for each grip clip since I plan to use those clips to join multiple tarps.
Hope to hear from you shortly!

Hi Wayne

Both the HD and the Pro can handle multiple layers of the heavy duty tarps in that you find at Home Depot


Bob Gillis

I purchased a 14' dome last year and have found that i need a tent fly.. You people said to use a tarp which i did but it looks kind of cheesy, I would like a fitted fly. do you have one in a sun proof material or should i just try a local canvas person?

Your product stood up to 40mph winds on several occasions while other tents went down, but the rain did come through the seams in those conditions that and the condensation buildup on the inside make a fly necessary

N Cianflone

We do not recommend that our tents be covered with a tarp as it can cause the poles to heat up and bend excessively which will cause the shingling to be weakened. We do offer several sunshades which stretch to conform to the domes shape: http://www.shelter-systems.com/accessories.html These shades will also take some of the punch out of the wind. If you did tarp your dome and if your poles have been excessively warped by the heat I suggest you replace them to maintain the strength of your dome and the shingling. You can sometimes find this size poles at irrigation pipe supply places or we sell individual poles also. You can also use Grip Clips and shade cloth you can get from Home Depo


I'm heading out to the playa and need to get some general pupose grip clips for some 70% aluminet shade cloth I have. Which would you recommend, and how far apart should I put them on the cloths.

I have two pieces for two separate shelters:

70% Aluminet Shade Curtain
14'wide x18' long

70% Aluminet Shade Curtain
21'wide x36' long

Jeff Wood

I would use the General Purpose and place them about 6' apart along the edges of your shades. For better griping sandwich in a 6" by 6" square of fabric, shade or tarp with each Grip Clip to give extra thickness to the shade were the Grip Clips are clipped. You can also use the Grip Clips to secure your shades in their mid sections to prevent them from lifting up or flapping in the wind.

Dear Shelter Systems,

I have recently build two 17' radius domes to live in a burning man. I have now reached a point where I need to cover these structures. I have taken note that parachutes are not good as they catch the wind. Contractors tarps are my next idea but I thought I would email and see if you had any suggestions or had material available for purchase that would cover these structures. Your website is very impressive and it is clear you understand the conditions of Black Rock city.

Thank you in advance for all your help.

I would suggest that you use construction grade tarps which you can get from home depo or even the regular blue tarps. You could also use our material:


I would then get a bunch (hard to have too many) of our General Purpose (Heavy Duty if you are using the heavy tarps) Grip Clips and Grip Clip Pro.

Then using the clips attach your tarps or our covering from the ground up holding and pulling the materials tight. finish with the top (this way you domes will end up waterproof and wind tight since you have shingled them. You can also use the clips to gather material so it will not flap in the wind.

Send us a photo and have fun.

Which Grip Clips do you recommended for the black rock dessert, and the Burning Man event. I would be using them with heavy duty silver tarps. Are the general purpose ones good enough, or do you recommend the heavy duty because of the high wind? Thanks for the help and can't wait to use this product.


Both sizes will grip your silver tarps. The HD is easier to attach and to grip multiple layers, since it is bigger and has a looser fit. As far as the wind: it all depends on how many you use to support a given area. The spacing of the HD can be farther apart say 6' while the GP say 5' apart. Now this spacing is a general idea and will generally work; there are many other considerations: how strong the wind, what type of supports will the Grip Clips be tied to, what angle is the tarp to the wind, will the tarps be under elastic support, etc. I hope this helps. Let me know if you have other questions.

We have one of your 18 foot domes (also a 30 foot dome) and are thinking of buying another 18 foot dome. We will be taking these to Burning Man and putting them within 10 to 15 feet of each other. Can a tarp or some other sun shade material be attached to both of them so that a shaded area is created between both of the domes?

Many thanks for your fine product!!

Yes, you can use Grip Clips to help.

How would you suggest creating this shaded area (attachment points on domes, fasteners, materials for shade)?

The best material is 70 to 90% shade cloth. Which you can get from a building supply. Attach to the Grip Clip Cords on the dome. If you get an extreme wind taking it down. You can use Grip Clips to attach to the Shade Cloth.

If we were going to use 4mm polyethylene sheeting (what's it called? Visqueen?) and maybe PVC pipe as the basis of our tent "kit," which clips would be good? General purpose?


What do you think about giving students Grip Clips for prototyping their tents for this engineering class? That might be easier for students to prototype with than using rocks and string (we can teach them that method too).

I think this is a good idea.


How many would be good to have available for use in each tent? 4? 8?

If possible, I would make available a large bin of them. They are reusable. Will they get to keep their tents? (if so then you may want to limit the number you give, since you will not get them back, to say 10 or 12.) The more you give them the more options they have for creative construction

I am working on an art project which involves projecting images onto various surfaces. I have been trying to figure out how to create essentially what you have pictured here:


What would be the leadtime/cost involved for something like this with one missing panel to shine the projector through?

Three weeks; $500. It would be a special order and as such non-returnable. Please contact Eleanor if you want to place an order and let us know if you want it if white or translucent. I recommend white if you want to project on it (images would be seen inside and out.

Our snow comes in a few light dustings - haven't seen more than a couple light fluffy inches at most- great improvement over the 3' of wet cement that fell one night when I lived in the Cascades. I would have it heated to a min of 50 degrees ( with either propane or electric) when I am not home and crank up the woodstove when I am home.

Sounds like the snow is not a problem; if you do get snow make sure it is brushed or melted off.

Which Grip Clips do you recommended for the black rock dessert, and the Burning Man event. I would be using them with heavy duty silver tarps. Are the general purpose ones good enough, or do you recommend the heavy duty because of the high wind? Thanks for the help and can't wait to use this product.

Both sizes will grip your silver tarps. The HD is easier to attach and to grip multiple layers, since it is bigger and has a looser fit. As far as the wind: it all depends on how many you use to support a given area. The spacing of the HD can be farther apart say 6' while the GP say 5' apart. Now this spacing is a general idea and will generally work; there are many other considerations: how strong the wind, what type of supports will the Grip Clips be tied to, what angle is the tarp to the wind, will the tarps be under elastic support, etc. I hope this helps. Let me know if you have other questions.

OK, the support poles are on the outside, canvas on the inside... is there a way to "hang" stuff (on the inside) to decorate ?


When you go to tie in the net doors, divider and and the floor a paper clip (large is best) or small bent peice of wire will be helpfull in threading their attaching cords to the inside clip holes on the dome. See manual for photo: http://www.shelter-systems.com/lighthouse-manual.html the clip on the left is the inner clip of the dome; the clip on the right is the accessory with cord attached. The paper clip is used to pull the accessory cord through the dome's inner clip hole. The cord is then knotted. Although the threading can be done with out the paper clip tool it makes it easier.

I was interested in making window awnings. I saw your picture, but have no idea how you can use 4 grip clips to make these awnings. I actually would want to make 4 to 8 window awnings.

Do you have an instruction guide for the awnings? Would finished awnings made this way be sturdy?

Thanks for your help.

It is fairly easy.

You need 4 GP Grip Clips per awning, 10 "eye"screws, two 1" wooden "prop" dowels, one "spreader" dowel slightly longer than the width of your awning and your awning cloth of choice. For awing cloth, you can use our covering if you want.

Cut your awing cloth to fit your window and so when pulled out will make good shade (see photo). Attach the 4 grip clips to the corners of your awning cloth. Screw 2 of your eye screws into the frame above your window and 2 to the sides of your window. Screw the other 6 eye screws into the ends of your wooden dowels.

Now tie the Grip Clips on one edge of your cloth to the eye screws above your window. Move your Grip Clips so that they tension your cloth tight. then tie the other Grip Clips to the prop and spreader dowels. Tie the lower ends of the two prop poles to the eye screws at the sides of your window.

If you are in a area with wind you should run a cord or dowel from each of lower edge Grip Clips that are attached to your awning to the bottom of your window frame with two additional eye screws. This will keep the awning from lifting in strong wind. Wind can cause your awning eye screws to vibrate on your window frames and cause damage. If this is a concern to you then attach your dowels to your house with brackets that allow attachment without the risk of vibration.

If you do not have wooden frames or siding use other fixtures that will allow you to attach your awning to your windows.

How can I cover my steel dome with tarps: see photo:


You can use Grip Clips and hang a cover inside or the Grip Clip Pro to attach a cover to the outside of your frame. You can shingle the tarps with Grip Clips to make them waterproff. You can gather the tarps with Grip Clips to take up fabric. You can pull the tarps tight to the lower bars of your structure also.


How does one keep the yurt dome from becoming an oven at burning man?

Thank you!

P.S. - was thinking about getting the 14 or 18 ft.


Use two of our Sun Shades (Accessories) and keep your 4 doors open. You can also use our Grip Clips on shade cloth you get from Home Depo

Do the Grip Clips on your dome stand up to high desert winds and rain or do they break under constant high wind?


They do very well. The clips will not break.We know people who have taken our domes to Burning Man, in Nevada, for years with no problems.

I'm interested in using your coverings and Grip Clip tarp fasteners on a construction site. My thoughts are to use your clips with some poles and guy lines to hold in position. Ideally it should by about 50 X 100'. Is this practical?


Our woven fabric, which is 6' wide, can be sewn into tarps, but we recommend you buy one readymade. Or you can join tarps together (or our fabric) with our Grip Clips to create a larger size. The wind loading on a 50x100' tarp would be high.

With poles, guylines and Grip Clip tarp fasteners you can create good protection for a building under construction. Grip Clips are versatile: you can create the size and shape of covering you need for a particular job, then disassemble the covering, and use it on the next job.

I'm interested in purchasing some of the woven ripstop fabric used for greenhouse coverings and tarps. The intended purpose is to make sails for sailboats. I refurbish old boats for teens and scout troops but sail fabrics have historically been cost prohibitive for the program and do not hold up well under the vigorous use (abuse) of these energetic sailors. In what quantities would I have to purchase the clear woven poly fabric, and in what standard widths does it come? Are sample swatches available?


We don't have experience using our fabric for sails. However, we believe the fabric has the right properties to make a good sail: It's stable on the bias (it doesn't stretch) and has a stiffness (a "stiff hand") which is ideal for sails (it won't get baggy). It can be sewn. You could attach it to the mast by sewing a sleeve or with Grip Clips tarp fasteners. You could attach it to the boom with a Grip Clip. It is 6' wide, available in any length, costing $10 a yard + shipping. We can send you a sample.

We run a boarding kennel for dogs and are looking for some way to cover the areas where we exercise the dogs so that we can continue to use them in inclement weather. We do live in an area that gets a substantial amount of snow in the winter.


You would have to remove the snow either manually or by melting it off as it accumulates. The latter method is the easiest but this means you would have to heat it. An alternative (and the most sensible) method of covering the run would be to attach poles or 2x4's to the fence on one side extending above the fence top to create high anchor points and then attach a tarp or tarps with Grip Clip tarp fasteners over the entire run. You can also use Grip Clips to join smaller tarps together.

Where can I buy grip clips in Australia?

We do not have any dealers there yet. We can send them to direct you.

I am interested in using one of your domes to construct a "sweat lodge" that is portable and can be moved...it would need to be big enough to fit 12-15 people sitting in a circle. Would you use a different heat resistant covering?

I would think the 14' SolarDome would be the best size. You would want to make a blanket liner and hook in inside to hold in the heat and protect the dome from the heat. You could use Grip Clips to fasten enough blankets together to make the liner or you could sew them. You would need about 33 Grip Clips to attach the blanket liner to the inside of the dome.

Can you use grip clips with tyvek to make a light weight tent? If so what size of clip would you use?

Because Tyvek is stiff and yet thin both the Light Fabric and the General Purpose will work. The GP will allow you to join more layers but is heavier than the LF. I would try to use the LF.

I think your grip clip product may be the kind of thing I'm looking for, but I'd like to ask you a few questions about my specific application. I am a graduate student in the School of Natural Resources at the University of Vermont, working on a scientific research project in which I am manipulating nutrient inputs to seedlings in pots, through fertilization to the roots. (I'll study resultant physiological responses.) Because of the nutrient treatments, I need to protect the seedlings from rainfall, but they need to be exposed to more or less normal light and temperature regimes. We have some steel cables suspended already, left over from a previous project (imagine three top corner ridges of a long tent). I'd like to suspend some heavy-duty clear plastic (like greenhouse film) below the cables. It would normally hang to one side, so that it can be drawn across (like pulling across a shower curtain-tent) so we can protect the seedlings quickly when it starts to rain. I'd also attach the bottom edges to low wires so that the sides wouldn't blow around in the wind. I'm having a difficult time describing this without a picture, but hopefully you have some idea of what I mean. Obviously I couldn't use regular grommets, at least along the top ridge, because they'd leak badly.

So, my questions are:

1) Do you think your clips would perform well as the hangers to suspend the plastic sheet below the wires?

2) How sturdy are the little hangers to which the clips are attached? Are they wire or plastic? I'm sure I'd have to use a different piece that actually slides across the wire, but I'm wondering whether your clip connectors/hangers would stand up to the tension this would create.

3) Do you think these connectors would stand up to the tension stresses that would result from both wind and rain in this situation?

4) Do they perform well when they are *not* under tension (like when my cover is pulled back for sunny days)?

5) What size clip would you recommend

6) If I ordered a lot (like 30 or 50) could I get a volume discount?


1. Yes.

2. They should.

3. Yes; you would need to use enough of them to support your cover

4. Yes; once you put them on they stay on unless you take them off.

5. Most likely the General Purpose; this depends on the spacings of your covering and what type of film you use.

6. Yes.